Malina Walker, ’22.

I have a JD because I graduated from law school. I’m licensed to practice law because I passed the California Bar Exam. But, I’m an attorney doing some good in the world because of the McGeorge School of Law Elder and Health Law Clinic.

Going to law school and passing the Bar Exam are important (critical!) things to do if you want to be a lawyer, but practicing law in the real world requires doing just that. It requires handling tangible files, looking at real evidence, reading statutes that apply to actual facts, navigating physical courts and clerks, and working with living human beings.

When I started working for Senior Legal Services of El Dorado County as a brand-new attorney, I knew how to do the actual work of lawyering from day one: how to manage a client file and meeting, keep good records, and ask good questions. I knew how to navigate client questions, deceptions, fears and furies. I knew how to take quiet moments to listen with compassion and how to re-direct to the matters at hand. I knew how to clarify and manage expectations and how to honestly address disappointments. I learned all of this because I worked with real clients and had continuous, expert, and supportive mentorship in the clinic. 

None of this means I didn’t have a lot to learn when I started working — I did, and still do. But, I had a strong base to start my career because I worked at the clinic. It is critical, I think, to appreciate this — the clinic is a law firm. It is staffed by licensed attorneys and student attorneys who don’t just offer “tips and tricks” or direct clients to other resources — they are the resources, and they do the work. 

A final note for those interested in the Elder and Health Law Clinic: If you’re uncertain whether this is the right area for you, but are curious about the valuable experiences it offers, then I would argue do it anyway. Because even if you don’t practice Elder Law, the kinds of nuanced and sophisticated legal and human skills you’ll develop will serve you wherever you practice in the future. Knowing how to assess capacity, having the skill to navigate sensitive human issues like independence, or dignity, and practicing with the awareness that your clients are people with context will make you a better lawyer. The “context” in Elder Law might involve issues like early dementia, loss of independence, or hearing impairments. However, if you’re trained to recognize these types of human challenges, you’ll become more attuned to the unique “context” of any client. This could include concerns such as a desire for revenge, fear of homelessness, lingering distrust of lawyers due to a past divorce, or any other personal matters they bring with them, beyond the legal issue they want you to address. And sometimes, they don’t even have a legal problem, but you can help them anyway — yet another skill you can learn in the clinic.

By McGeorge School of Law alumnus Malina Walker, ’22.

Lauren Sorokolit, ’13.

The Elder and Health Law Clinic at the University of the Pacific McGeorge School of Law introduced me to topics and issues that shaped my current legal career in the healthcare field. As a student in the Clinic, I was given the tools to find out what it would feel like to work with different subjects and in different forums, which helped me map out my future path.

As a first-year law student, I learned that the McGeorge Legal Clinics were the best way to gain insight into life as an attorney, as well as to help people in the Sacramento community. I was drawn to the Elder and Health Law Clinic because of the diverse issues those clients faced. I learned that students working in the Elder and Health Law Clinic could expect to encounter clients wishing to execute wills and trusts and powers of attorney; clients having difficulty navigating public benefits; interpersonal disputes; and housing crises.

Through the Clinic, I was exposed to different forums for addressing issues, which helped me to build confidence in myself as an emerging attorney. There was no “one-size-fits-all” answer in the Clinic. I enjoyed getting to know my clients and helping them with issues that were often different from the issues that had brought them in the door. Professor Melissa Brown encouraged us to investigate and independently craft unique solutions for our clients.

One of my clients was denied a prescription drug benefit through the Medicare program. Prior to law school, I had no experience with public healthcare benefits, but I gained a foundational knowledge through the Elder and Health Law class, and learned even more in the Elder and Health Law Clinic. I ultimately filed an appeal with the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) on behalf of my client. I submitted briefing on the issue to CMS and argued my case before a federal administrative law judge. My client was ultimately able to obtain his needed prescription medication.

Additionally, I drafted multiple wills, trusts, and powers of attorney. When we had a client approach us for help with an abusive family member, I appeared before a Family Court judge to obtain a temporary restraining order. When I didn’t have the tools to help my clients, I worked with other community organizations to help them find appropriate help.

I found myself drawn to healthcare issues while working in the clinic. I was able to connect with multiple alumni in the healthcare field through McGeorge’s Career Services Office in order to gain a better understanding of the different types of healthcare attorneys. I also signed up for relevant internships (e.g. the Center for Medicare Advocacy) and externships (e.g. Office of the Attorney General, Bureau of Medi-Cal Fraud and Elder Abuse) and took classes such as Health Care Law, Administrative Law, and Health Care Policy.

Ultimately, I found myself drawn to in-house healthcare practice. I liked the idea of collaborative problem-solving within an organization of people dedicated to helping others. I am now in-house counsel with a children’s health care system in Fort Worth, Texas. The healthcare field can be complex and difficult to navigate. I am thankful for my experience in the McGeorge Elder and Health Law Clinic, which set me up for success in my field.

By Lauren Sorokolit, ’13.

Crystal Viruet Witherell, ’19.

Like many students, I went to law school to use my education to make a meaningful impact in the world. As a first-generation student, I did not fully grasp all I would need to learn to be an effective advocate one day. The Elder and Health Law Clinic at the University of the Pacific McGeorge School of Law was a key part of that journey. I gained practical experience, and I saw positive results through the clinic even before graduating. That kept me motivated to keep going because my experiences in the clinic often reminded me of why I chose to pursue law in the first place and equipped me with the foundation I needed for the future.

Working directly with elderly clients, often on protective restraining order cases and estate planning, was eye-opening. Learning from professors, like Melissa C. Brown, and other supervising attorneys was invaluable. Professor Brown emphasized serving the whole client. That meant meeting people where they were and guiding them through their transitions with empathy and clarity. I saw firsthand how much of a difference digestible legal information and having a reliable advocate could make. Making people feel heard and respected empowered them along their journey. The assistance provided in the clinic translated to a real impact in people’s daily quality of life. I knew I wanted to continue doing that in my work for years to come.

The clinic also helped me practice time management. It gave me experience with legal software which became an advantage in the real world. I learned how to communicate effectively with distressed clients and about Probate Court procedures, both of which have been applicable daily in my current and past roles. As a new attorney, the skills I gained in the clinic helped me hit the ground running, ready to learn and grow. I took what I learned about the law, communication, and the importance of preparation with me during my years in private practice and my transition back to public interest work.

Now, as a guardianship attorney, I continue to help clients through significant life transitions. Thanks to the foundational training in the clinic, approaching each case with compassion and confidence is natural for me. The clinic didn’t just prepare me for work — it helped me grow as a person, lawyer and better understand how to help people. I will continue to carry those skills for the rest of my career. I’m incredibly grateful for that experience. I can’t recommend legal clinics enough if you’re a law student.

By Crystal Viruet Witherell, ’19. Crystal is a guardianship attorney in the Child Abuse Prevention Program at Legal Aid of Sonoma County.

Natalia Osorio-Elizondo, ’24

When I started law school, I knew I wanted to use the opportunity to explore ways to advance my passion for serving marginalized communities with my law degree. While I had experience in nonprofit immigration work, I was eager to branch out and explore new areas of law. My commitment to advocacy and social justice ultimately led me to the Prisoner Civil Rights Mediation Clinic in my final year of law school.

Before joining the clinic, I had no prior experience working with incarcerated individuals or engaging in mediation. It was exciting to learn about the mediation process and its objectives. Serving as a neutral co-mediator was a significant shift in perspective for me, as my previous legal work had always been on one side of a claim.

Professor Ederlina Co encouraged us to critically examine the systemic forces that shape the mediation process and the experiences of incarcerated individuals. Early in the semester, reading The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander provided crucial context for understanding the challenges that incarcerated litigants face when bringing their claims. Additionally, visiting Folsom State Prison solidified my understanding of the conditions in which these litigants live and the barriers they navigate.

The clinic offered a unique and rewarding experience that deepened my understanding of civil rights litigation and mediation. Beyond gaining substantive knowledge, I developed valuable legal skills, including working with incarcerated clients and maintaining neutrality and impartiality.

Working with the plaintiffs reaffirmed my commitment to serving marginalized communities in client-centered work. Every litigant I worked with expressed gratitude that we were there to hear their stories, and I felt honored that they trusted us enough to share them. Although we did not represent them, it was essential to me that we accurately conveyed their narratives and interests to the judges through our bench memos. Even as neutral co-mediators, I believe that meeting with the prisoners, either by phone or in person, before their mediations, helped to mitigate the inherent power imbalance in these cases and the broader system.

Furthermore, adopting a neutral stance throughout the mediation process and collaborating with judges allowed me to see the bigger picture and assess critical information effectively. Learning to remain neutral was a valuable lesson in my legal career, as my prior experiences had always positioned me as an advocate for one side. The judges we worked with provided invaluable insights into neutral mediation, helping me refine my ability to analyze cases objectively. Even if I only represent one side in my future career, I now have a greater capacity to assess a case’s strengths and weaknesses from an unbiased perspective.

Overall, my experience in the Prisoner Civil Rights Mediation Clinic has made me a better lawyer. Engaging with plaintiffs in this setting was an invaluable opportunity for any law student, and I am grateful for the skills and insights I gained. This experience has reinforced my dedication to using my legal education to support and advocate for marginalized communities.

By Natalia Osorio-Elizondo, ’24.  

Bernadette Bet-Mashal, ’21

During law school, I had the privilege of participating in the Elder and Health Law Clinic, an experience that shaped not only my legal skills but also my confidence in practicing law. Like many law students, I went in eager to learn, but I left with something a textbook could never teach — firsthand experience that prepared me to open my own practice not long after passing the California Bar Exam.

What stood out the most about the clinic was how much real-world experience I gained, even beyond what I was getting at a law firm as an intern. I wasn’t just researching legal theories or drafting memos — I was in the trenches, working directly with clients, drafting discovery requests and responses, preparing trial binders, and engaging in meet and confer meetings with opposing counsel. I even gained valuable trial experience, something many law students don’t get until much later in their careers.

Although the clinic primarily focused on elder and health law, my supervising attorney worked closely with me to incorporate cases related to breach of contract matters and transactional work, aligning with my growing interest in contract and business law. By the end of my time in the clinic, I had practical experience that set me apart from many new attorneys. More importantly, I had confidence — the kind that only comes from doing the work, not just reading about it.

One of the biggest takeaways from the clinic was how much I valued the attorney-client relationship. Working directly with clients gave me a deep appreciation for the responsibility we have as lawyers. I saw how much they relied on me, and it made me determined to never be the kind of attorney who gives the profession a bad name. That experience instilled in me a work ethic and a commitment to fairness that still drives my practice today.

Looking back, I can say with certainty that the legal clinic is the reason I had the confidence and experience to open my own firm here in Sacramento. My primary focus now is ensuring that my clients — whether they’re business owners, individuals in contract disputes, or those facing legal uncertainty — are treated fairly and receive the justice they deserve. The skills I gained in the clinic continue to shape the way I advocate for my clients today.

For any law student considering clinic work, I can’t recommend it enough. It’s one of the best ways to bridge the gap between theory and practice, and for me, it was the foundation that made my legal career possible.

By McGeorge School of Law alumnus Bernadette Bet-Mashal, ’21.

Kennedy Skinner is a second-year student at McGeorge School of Law. 

I had the privilege of working at the Elder and Health Law Clinic at the University of the Pacific McGeorge School of Law in the summer and fall of 2024.

I learned the importance of an estate plan and how it can give security to the individuals and their families who walk through the clinic doors. Estate planning is not one-size-fits-all — where every plan illustrates the client’s family dynamics, wants, desires, and entire lives all wrapped in legal documents. Understanding how crucial these documents are for ensuring the client’s wishes are respected while balancing the sensitive and emotional nature of the process was an excellent learning experience to build my professional and personal skills.

The majority of my experience at the clinic involved drafting and reviewing various documents and personal assets of our clients. Initially, the process was overwhelming to try and deliver what the client wanted while learning the intricacies and details to consider while drafting these documents. However, with the help of my supervising attorneys Lacey Mickleburgh, John Cary Sims, and Melissa Brown, I became more comfortable and confident with identifying the important provisions and understanding the reasoning behind them. Learning from the supervising attorneys helped me grow my technical legal skills and gave me invaluable insights into the ethical and emotional aspects of practicing law. They additionally taught me how to properly balance myself with my work after experiencing a tough recovery from an injury.

During my time in the Elder and Health Law Clinic, I additionally took the course Elder Law and Social Policy with Professor Brown. The course dove deeper into the elder law field and encompassed many other issues, such as Medicaid planning, long-term care planning, and issues faced by our aging population. Working in the clinic gave me a broader understanding of how all the topics in the course intersect with estate planning and the larger picture of elder law.

The experience at the Elder and Health Law Clinic wasn’t just about my professional development — it was a personally enriching experience. Working as a team with the supervising attorneys to create a difference in the clients’ lives was incredibly rewarding. Helping the clients develop plans that would ease their burdens, give security to their families, and ensure their wishes were carried out gave me a deep sense of fulfillment. With the encouragement of the clinic, I received a scholarship to the California Advocates for Nursing Home Reform (CANHR) Elder Law Conference, which I attended in fall 2024 and learned from attorneys across the state about developments in the elder law field.

The lessons I learned at McGeorge School of Law’s Elder and Health Law Clinic illustrate the significance of estate planning. Elder law has solidified my personal and professional path in estate planning. I cannot wait to bring security to my future clients.

By Kennedy Skinner, a second-year student at McGeorge School of Law. 

“Part of the overall framework of doing ‘the work’ is really honoring co-production and moving from tokenized youth voice into more of a true co-creation process.”

– Santa Cruz County Behavioral Health Professional and TCP Participant

Introduction

The intention of this blog is to share learning and insights from the Transformational Change Partnership, which develops the capacity of public-serving agencies to advance system-level changes that improve outcomes and reduce disparities. Backed by interdisciplinary research, the blog is based on learnings from the TCP and presents practical actions that practitioners and policymakers can use to diagnose, reimagine and improve public systems. 

As we increasingly recognize the complexity of diversity — not only in ethnicity but also in the entirety of identities that shape our communities and their needs — there is a growing urgency to create truly inclusive approaches.  This vision lies at the heart of “co-production,” a transformative approach redefining the creation, implementation, and evaluation of services and policies. More than just consultation, co-production invites community members to the table as equal stakeholders, leveraging their lived experiences to drive meaningful change.1,2 While healthcare often takes center stage in these conversations, the principles of co-production extend far beyond, influencing sectors such as education, research, housing regeneration, and public policy.3 4 5

Co-production is not an abstract ideal; it is becoming a cornerstone of modern governance and public service. Across the United States, federal and state agencies are embedding co-production into their frameworks, recognizing that true progress occurs when community members are active partners rather than passive recipients. The Transformational Change Partnership (TCP) provides an actionable model for achieving this shift, supporting counties as they build sustainable and inclusive systems of care.

One powerful example is California’s Sacramento County Children’s Coalition exemplifies this shift. Appointed by the Board of Supervisors, this advisory body evaluates community needs, assesses services, and provides policy recommendations to promote the health and well-being of children, youth, and families.6  Around the Coalition’s table sit voices from every corner of the community: a retired nurse who cared for generations of children, a former pediatrician with deep knowledge of health equity, a retired educator who understands academic barriers, a youth advocate passionate about behavioral health, and more. Together, they form a tapestry of lived experiences, ensuring county decisions regarding youth and families are shaped by diverse community perspectives. One large project that emerged from the Coalition was the creation of the 2022 Children’s Report Card, a 122-page comprehensive review of the challenges that Sacramento County youth and families face to inform policymakers, the majority of which was written by community members. Co-production in action provides a direct pathway to reduce disparities that have excluded far too many individuals from accessing services originally designed to serve them. 

At its core, co-production goes beyond improvement of services — it’s about creating trust, fostering mutual respect, and ensuring that systems are not only sustainable but responsive to real community needs.7 8 9 When community members are treated as equal partners, the results are transformative: policies become more effective, services more equitable, and outcomes more lasting.10 This is a fundamental shift in how we approach collaboration and progress. TCP enables and amplifies such efforts by providing county agencies with the training, frameworks, and partnerships necessary to implement systemic change in collaboration with the very communities they serve.

Key Learning: “When community members are treated as equal partners, the results are transformative: policies become more effective, services more equitable, and outcomes more lasting.” 

Co-Production: The Peak of the Ladder of Co-Production 

The Ladder of Co-Production, conceptualized by Sherry Arnstein and later modified by the National Co-Production Advisory Group, illustrates the progression of citizen involvement in decision-making processes (Figure 1).11 At its apex lies co-production, representing the highest form of partnership where power and responsibility are equitably shared between professionals and community members.12 13 True co-production integrates lived experiences, perspectives, and realities of marginalized groups — voices often overlooked by decision-makers shaping programs, services, and strategies. This approach is not simply about inclusion; it’s about equitable partnership, ensuring those most affected by the inequities and those with the closest touch points to community realities are actively involved and trusted leaders.  

In contrast, the lower rungs — such as informing and consultation — often involve superficial one-way communication or tokenistic involvement, lacking genuine influence over outcomes.14 By striving for co-production, organizations can ensure that services are not only designed for the community but led by the community. TCP helps organizations move beyond surface-level engagement toward deep, structural inclusion, successfully seen in Placer and Yolo Counties.

Figure 1. Ladder of Co-Production.

Figure 1. Source: Ladder of co-production – TLAP. January 13, 2021. Accessed January 2, 2025. https://thinklocalactpersonal.org.uk/resources/ladder-of-co-production/.

Why it Matters – From the Perspective of a Co-Production Consultant 

“I came to understand a critical factor contributing to these barriers: the lack of representation among those designing the very programs, services, and systems meant to support us.” 

As a Black man, I have often felt the weight of massive, invisible barriers to accessing resources and opportunities that should inherently be available to me and others who look like me. From school support services, such as counselors who could guide me toward achieving my educational goals, to safe spaces for discussing challenges with therapists or counselors, my experience has been one of limited access. While these services might seem readily available to many, my reality — and that of many others in my community — was starkly different. 

As I transitioned into community organizing in my adult life, I came to understand a critical factor contributing to these barriers: the lack of representation among those designing the very programs, services, and systems meant to support us. When decision-makers lack lived experience or an understanding of the socio-economic realities faced by Black and Brown communities, the resulting solutions often miss the mark. Moreover, the absence of diversity extends beyond race and ethnicity to include gender, sexual orientation, class, disability, and other intersecting identities. 

These missing perspectives in social services, health care, mental health, education, and other county systems exacerbate disparities. Even well-intentioned efforts to address these issues often fail to go beyond surface-level solutions. Entrenched employees, skilled in maintaining system functionality, can struggle to envision alternative approaches due to the rigid, bureaucratic processes they operate within. Furthermore, the voices of those most impacted by barriers are either excluded or tokenized, preventing the fundamental rethinking required to address systemic inequities effectively. 

Co-production offers a powerful solution that must go beyond superficial gestures like surveys or one-off consultations. The lived experiences and expertise of those directly impacted must drive the development of solutions. It must encompass not only values but skills that promote inclusive participation, shared power and responsibility, transparency, capacity building and building on assets, health and reconciliation, compensation of lived experience, and evaluation and accountability. By collaborating with individuals who intimately understand the barriers they face, county systems can create more efficient and effective processes that meet the real needs of diverse communities.  

Having trained co-production to counties and organizations for many years, including with the Transformational Change Partnership (TCP), the most common challenges I see are: 

Challenges in County Systems 

  • Lack of Representation: Insufficient diversity in staff and leadership roles. 
  • Exclusion of Marginalized Voices: Processes often fail to meaningfully include the perspectives of marginalized communities. 
  • Procedural Focus: A tendency to address problems as procedural rather than people-centered, such as focusing on fee schedules or assessments rather than geographic access to services. 
  • Cultural Competence Deficits: Staff may lack cultural competence, relevance, and humility when serving diverse clients. 
  • Client Partnership Overlooked: Failure to recognize clients as essential partners in program and service design. 
  • Siloed Operations: Departmental silos create service bottlenecks that disproportionately affect clients. 
  • Inadequate Data Collection: Limited focus on collecting data about the experiences of underrepresented clients with the greatest needs. 
  • Absence of Advisory Bodies: A lack of diverse client stakeholder advisory groups to guide and evaluate services and processes. 

TCP works directly with county leaders to address these barriers, providing tailored support to dismantle outdated structures and replace them with participatory models.

Implications for Practice: Turning Principles into Action  

Co-production requires ongoing commitment, reflection, and adaptation. Below are practical steps organizations can take to embed co-production into their systems: 

  • Build Relationships, Not Transactions: Invest time in building genuine, trust-based relationships. 
  • Start with Intentional Conversations: Establish a dedicated community advisory group to review and guide strategies, programs, and service; create a space where community members feel safe sharing their perspectives. 
  • Deep Engagement: Develop processes that deeply engage client stakeholders to identify barriers and co-create solutions. 
  • Cross-Departmental Training: Conduct cross-departmental trainings with community stakeholders on cultural competence, humility, relevance, and sensitivity, fostering shared understanding and equitable practices. 
  • Commit to Transparency: Enhance transparency and communication about program development, implementation, and evaluation to improve accessibility and understanding for clients and families. Be clear about the purpose of community involvement and how contributions will influence outcomes. 
  • Empower Frontline Staff: Address internal power dynamics by empowering frontline staff to influence changes in processes and services, supported by management and leadership. 
  • Capacity Building: Partner with third-party trainers to build the capacity of community stakeholders, equipping them to collaborate effectively with county staff and leadership. 
  • Measure What Matters: Implement robust data tracking systems to capture and regularly evaluate the experiences of underrepresented clients, using this information to drive continuous quality improvement in services and co-production. 

A Collective Responsibility 

Co-production is a cultural shift in how we approach collaboration and governance. It calls for humility, patience, and a willingness to share power. And the rewards are undeniable: stronger policies, healthier communities, and systems that are truly reflective of the people they serve. Through initiatives like the Transformational Change Partnership, we are witnessing the tangible benefits of integrating community voices into system-level decision-making. The journey isn’t easy, but it’s one worth taking — together. 

Additional Resources

Slay, J. & Robinson, B. (2011) In this together: building knowledge of co-production, New Economics Foundation, London.  

Slay, J. & Stephens, L. (2013) Co-production in mental health: A Literature Review, New Economics Foundation, London. 

McClinton et al. (2024) Co-Production Competencies, California Institute of Behavioral Health Solutions & Sacramento County. 

Authors

Sidra Ahmad
Ryan McClinton 

Sidra Ahmad, MS 

Behavioral Health Associate in Strategic and Equity Initiatives

California Institute of Behavioral Health Solutions 

Ryan McClinton 

Diversity and Equity Consultant

Clayborn Consulting  

References 

  1. Slay J, Lucie Stephens. Co-production in mental health: A Literature Review 4 (2013): 1-36. New Economics Foundation. 2013;4:1-36. ↩︎
  2. Redman S, Greenhalgh T, Adedokun L, et al. Co-production of knowledge: the future. BMJ. 2021;372:n434. doi:10.1136/bmj.n434 ↩︎
  3. Gordon S, O’Brien AJ. Co-production: Power, problems and possibilities. International Journal of Mental Health Nursing. 2018;27(4):1201-1203. doi:10.1111/inm.12504 ↩︎
  4. Laura Michelle Makey CLW. Co-production: what it is and how it can ensure inclusive practice for service users and staff. Accessed January 2, 2025. https://journals.rcni.com/nursing-management/evidence-and-practice/coproduction-what-it-is-and-how-it-can-ensure-inclusive-practice-for-service-users-and-staff-nm.2022.e2046/abs ↩︎
  5. Julia Slay, Ben Robinson. In this together: building knowledge of co-production. New Economics Foundation. Published online July 2011. ↩︎
  6. SACRAMENTO COUNTY CHILDREN’S COALITION. Accessed January 2, 2025. https://dcfas.saccounty.net:443/Admin/childrenscoalition/pages/childrenscoalition_home.aspx ↩︎
  7. Ladder of co-production – TLAP. January 13, 2021. Accessed January 2, 2025. https://thinklocalactpersonal.org.uk/resources/ladder-of-co-production/ ↩︎
  8. The Ladder of Co-Production. Business Lab. January 31, 2020. Accessed January 2, 2025. https://www.businesslab.co.nz/tools/the-ladder-of-co-production ↩︎
  9. The Importance of Co-Production in Health and Social Care. February 15, 2024. Accessed January 2, 2025. https://catalystgrp.co.uk/blog/the-importance-of-co-production-in-health-and-social-care/ ↩︎
  10. Co-Production In Health & Social Care – Why Is It Important. Accessed January 2, 2025. https://www.theaccessgroup.com/en-gb/blog/hsc-co-production-in-health-and-social-care-why-it-is-important/ ↩︎
  11. Susan Conquer, Luke Bacon, Will Thomas, Sophie Walters, Helen Langton, Naomi Harflett. The value of co-production within health and social care: a literature review. Healthwatch Suffolk. Published online September 2021. ↩︎
  12. Beth Nightingale, Catherine Leyshon, Michael Leyshon, Timothy Walker. Co-Production in Service Delivery: Opportunities and Barriers, A literature review. Published online 2016. ↩︎
  13. Wasi P. “Triangle That Moves The Mountain” and Health Systems Reform Movement in Thailand. Human Resources for Health Development Journal. 2000;4(2). ↩︎
  14. Tangcharoensathien V, Sirilak S, Sritara P, et al. Co-production of evidence for policies in Thailand: from concept to action. BMJ. 2021;372:m4669. doi:10.1136/bmj.m4669 ↩︎

Daisy Deng, ’12

Daisy Deng, ’12, is a University of the Pacific McGeorge School of Law alumna, who serves as senior legal counsel at VIP.com in Guangzhou, China.

1. Tell us about yourself. From undertaking an LLM in Transnational Business Practice to being a Senior Legal Counsel, what influenced the other?

Before undertaking the LLM degree at McGeorge School of Law, I was an attorney at Schinders Law. I was young and did not have a clear plan with my career path. Thanks to the encouragement of Henry Liao, ’98 (an alumnus of McGeorge and a member of the International Board of Advisors), I started thinking about studying abroad for a year or so. And thanks to his support (not only financially), I got the opportunity to make my dream come true at McGeorge. I don’t quite remember how many programs were running at the time and the reason I picked Transnational Business, but it turned out to be a very smart choice for me. With the study at McGeorge, I became more familiar with American and European legal systems, and had more sense of how business was working internationally in modern times. After leaving Schinders, I firstly joined Amway (China) Co., Ltd., a corporation headquartered at Ada, Michigan, as a legal counsel, and then Vipshop (China) Co., Ltd., an NYSE listing company, as a senior legal counsel. I would have to say, my study at McGeorge has shaped my career path. Without it, I would not have the chance nor the ability to serve my employees (international company or company with international business) as well as I do now.

2.  Being a legal counsel to a company of the NYSE seems a complex work. Could you please describe your practice, and what legal skills are most relevant?

Vipshop is a sales company with its biggest market and major operation in Mainland China. Therefore, as legal counsels, we provide our legal advice mainly under the scope of law of P.R. China. We support the operation of the company in all aspects on a daily basis, e.g. contract review, dispute resolution, intellectual property and so on. Of course, it has some overseas transactions, and the knowledge I acquired at McGeorge helped me a lot in this regard.

3. What are some of the most interesting issues or cases that you have worked on during your career? What stands out for you as one of the major or most important moments of your legal career?

Please refer to my CV (attached hereof) for my working experience. The cases may mostly be found boring instead of interesting though.

4. Before you came to McGeorge, you had an LLM from Sun Yat-sen University. Why/how did you decide to pursue an LLM through McGeorge?

As mentioned in Question #1, I was encouraged by Henry to undertake the LLM program at McGeorge. The idea of studying abroad did not have much to do with one more LLM degree. The experience was more attractive to me. I was interested in the American legal system, which I knew from my study at Sun Yat-sen University, that varies a lot from the legal system in Mainland China. Furthermore, I was interested in American culture, food and so on. I watched some American soaps when I was a college student, e.g. Friends, I thought it would be nice to spend some time living in U.S. It was not until I arrived in California that I realized the U.S. was such a big country with so many states and different cultures.

5. As an international student, how was your integration into the Law School and Sacramento Community? What did you think of the international students’ support system at McGeorge?

Thanks for this question. I have to extend my gratitude to the international students’ support system at McGeorge. I received so much help and kindness from them, Clémence Kucera, Jocelyn Blinn, Rachel, and so many others. I was having my first child during my stay at McGeorge. I remember clearly that, after my child was born, we could no longer live in the dormitory due to the rules of campus. They helped me to find and move into a house near the campus. It was not easy for a new mom to take care of her baby and the courses at the same time. But they pulled me though. I can’t remember how many times Jocelyn drove me to the grocery stores on weekends, as I did not have a car at that time. Whenever I recall my days at McGeorge, I thank them a lot for their help.

6. You recently joined the International Board of Advisors for McGeorge, How do you see your role? Where do you want to see McGeorge International Community? If there is one message you would want to give the McGeorge global alums, what is it?

Thanks for Henry’s recommendation, I joined the IBOA for McGeorge recently. I wish I could contribute more to McGeorge’s international program, and could actually add value to IBOA as far as I can. Nonetheless, it was not easy for me to make up a plan to visit McGeorge or join the IBOA meeting in person. I don’t have many vacations with my job, and now I have two children to take care of. There’s one piece of advice though. Whenever McGeorge is enrolling international students for LLM programs, please share with us a message/brochure via e-mail. I would love to forward them to the students at Law School of Sun Yat-sen University if this helps. One message for the McGeorge global alums? Happy New Year! Welcome to China! The visa-free transit stay period for foreigners has been extended to up to 240 hours now.

Shweta Singh, ’10

Shweta Singh, ’10, is a University of the Pacific McGeorge School of Law alumna and a seasoned legal professional with over 15 years of experience across diverse industries. Her work encompasses cross-border transactions in EMEA, APAC and Americas involving corporate legal advisory, compliance, contract management and dispute resolution. As a legal professional, Shweta has had opportunities to work on both sides – India as well as in USA as an in-house counsel for reputed MNCs, NGOs, start-ups, law firms in various capacities which has helped her become a versatile professional with leadership and management capabilities. Beyond her legal career, she is passionate about sustainability, supporting women’s empowerment, mentorship,  contributing to community development initiatives and fostering positive social impact.

1. What did trigger your desire to study an LLM program and specifically at McGeorge School of Law?

My desire to pursue an LLM program stemmed from my aspiration to understand the intricacies of international law and its practical implications in today’s globalized world. After completing my LLB in India and gaining substantial experience in various legal domains, I realized the importance of expanding my expertise in cross-border business and global legal frameworks. I aimed to enhance my ability to offer strategic legal solutions that bridge jurisdictions, cultures, and regulatory frameworks to better serve clients in today’s interconnected global economy.

University of the Pacific McGeorge School of Law stood out for its robust curriculum especially for its programs like transnational business. Further, the opportunity to learn under esteemed faculty was particularly compelling. Additionally, McGeorge’s emphasis on practical skills through legal clinics and research opportunities allowed me to deepen my understanding while applying it in real-world scenarios.

McGeorge School of Law was an ideal choice for me due to its reputation for excellence and strong focus on transnational business law. The program’s comprehensive curriculum not only aligned perfectly with my professional goals but also provided an immersive learning environment. Combined with the school’s emphasis on practical application through legal internships and research, the master’s program at McGeorge equipped me with the tools to navigate complex international legal landscapes and broadened my horizons as a legal professional.

The culturally diverse student body at McGeorge enriched my learning experience thereby exposing me to different perspectives and fostering a better understanding of cross-cultural dynamics. Additionally, the school’s strategic location in California, a hub known for its innovation and commerce further augmented my academic journey. My time at McGeorge has been instrumental in shaping me into a competent legal professional ready to tackle the challenges of a dynamic global legal landscape.

  2.  In what ways did the global perspective you gained from the LLM influence your understanding of international law or cross-border legal issues in your current role in India?

The global perspective I gained during my LLM at McGeorge School of Law has significantly enhanced my ability to comprehend international law and cross-border legal issues in my current role. The comprehensive understanding of transnational laws that I developed, has been instrumental in advising multinational clients and managing legal matters involving diverse jurisdictions.

My work often involves drafting and negotiating complex transnational agreements, a task made easier by the knowledge I gained in international legal frameworks. This has not only helped me anticipate and address potential risks but also navigate the complexities of compliances in international transactions.

Today, I leverage this global outlook to bridge the gap between Indian legal requirements and international business expectations offering solutions that are culturally and commercially viable. Given India’s dynamic economic growth coupled with burgeoning cross-border transactions, my LLM experience has truly been a cornerstone of my ability to excel in this globalized legal landscape.

3. The LLM program often brings together students from diverse legal backgrounds. How did interacting with international peers shape your perspective on legal practice and contribute to your career or personal growth?

Interacting with international peers during my program at McGeorge was an enriching experience that not only shaped my perspective on legal practice but also contributed significantly to my personal and professional growth.

The diverse legal backgrounds of my classmates exposed me to a wide array of legal systems, cultures and approaches to problem-solving. Engaging in discussions with peers from different countries helped me appreciate the nuances of cross-border legal practices and develop a more holistic understanding of international law. This exchange of ideas fostered a collaborative mindset and taught me to view legal challenges through multiple lenses thereby equipping me to better address the needs of global clients.

On a personal level, the experience enhanced my cultural awareness and adaptability-qualities that are crucial in today’s interconnected legal landscape. It also built my confidence in engaging with stakeholders from diverse backgrounds thereby further strengthening my ability to serve clients across industries and geographies.

4. Reflecting on your LLM experience, which course, professor, or extracurricular activity had the most lasting impact on your legal career or personal life and why?

Reflecting on my LLM experience at McGeorge School of Law, my work as a research assistant to Professor Sabine Schlemmer-Schulte had a particularly transformative impact on my legal career and personal growth. Professor Schlemmer-Schulte’s expertise in international laws inspired me to deepen my understanding of cross-border legal frameworks and their practical application in resolving complex disputes.

As her research assistant, I had the unique opportunity to delve into various bilateral investment treaties and arbitration awards. I gained invaluable insights into the interplay between global legal principles and national regulations which further enhanced my analytical and research skills. This combination of coursework and research work was especially influential because it provided both theoretical knowledge and practical application. On a personal level, Professor Schlemmer-Schulte’s mentorship was instrumental in refining my critical thinking and perspective on global legal challenges which continues to influence me till date.

On a personal level, Professor Schlemmer-Schulte’s mentorship was instrumental. She was a great mentor and guide, providing support and encouragement throughout my studies. Her advice not only helped me navigate academic challenges but equipped me with the knowledge needed to navigate the complexities of international law.

5. Do you believe that graduating from an U.S. LLM program did open more doors for you?

Yes, graduating from a U.S. LLM program can be a significant door-opener especially if it is from a reputed law school. It provides several advantages:

  1. International Credibility: A U.S. LLM from a prestigious institution signals to potential employers worldwide that you have a solid legal education and are well-versed in international laws.
  2. Networking Opportunities: U.S. law schools often have a global alumni network and opportunities to connect with prominent legal professionals which can lead to expanded opportunities and career growth. Further, the reunions serve as the crowning moment, offering a chance to strengthen connections and foster new ones.
  3. Enhanced Skillset: The LLM often includes training in specialized areas equipping you with unique expertise that can set you apart in competitive markets and pave the way for advanced career prospects.
  4. Cultural Competency: Studying in a diverse environment fosters cross-cultural understanding and adaptability which is indispensable for excelling in today’s global environment.
  5. Bar Exam Eligibility: An LLM degree may qualify foreign-trained lawyers to sit for the U.S. bar exams making you eligible to practice law in various jurisdictions.
  6. Broader Career Pathways: It opens doors to roles beyond traditional law practice such as academia, multinationals corporations, consulting, government agencies, in-house counsel positions or non-profit organizations.

Olivia Lê Horovitz, ’91

Olivia Lê Horovitz, ’91, is a University of the Pacific McGeorge School of Law alumna, who is a founding partner at Rimon Law in Paris, France.

1. Could you please describe your practice and how you decided to go into this field?

My practice primarily focuses on cross-border mergers and acquisitions, private equity transactions, and foreign direct investment regulations. I assist clients with a wide range of complex, multijurisdictional transactions, including the sale of businesses, distressed companies, restructurings, divestitures, spin-offs, recapitalizations, and complex joint ventures involving multiple jurisdictions and international commercial contracts.

I regularly advise American, European, Israeli, Middle East, and Chinese companies seeking to invest in Europe through private and public acquisitions, as well as French companies expanding internationally. I also work with French and foreign investment funds, strategic investors, and start-ups on financing and acquisition activities, as well as private and public companies at all stages of their development.

On the counselling side, I advise clients on a wide range of domestic and international corporate governance and responsibility matters, including Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG) matters.

On the industry side, I have developed a thorough knowledge in the technology, media, and telecommunications (TMT) sectors, such as 3D printing, as well as in life sciences, renewable energy, industrial, and aerospace industries.

The reasons I went into these fields of law, and in particular  the international and cross-border aspects of my practice, were driven by my family background. My grandfather, Abraham Horovitz, born in 1880 was a lawyer in Frankfurt. My great-grandfather, Rabbi Markus Horovitz, came from a village in Hungary named Tiszaladany to Frankfurt in 1878 where he founded the Borneplatz Synagogue in 1882. Sensing the growing threats of the time, my grandfather left in 1937 Germany for England with his entire family, shortly before the Kristallnacht.  In England, he was unable to practice as an attorney and became a solicitor. My mother was nine years old when they left Frankfurt, she therefore spoke fluent German and English. She met my father, who came from Vietnam in 1948 to study international law in London and they both left for France in the late 1950s where my brother and I were born.

Therefore, my extended family is spread across the United States, England, Israel, Vietnam and France. These international roots naturally drew my interest for international and comparative law matters and my desire to study abroad.

2. What are some of the most interesting issues or cases that you have worked on during your career?

I’ve been fortunate to work on many exciting cases. A few highlights include:

• LastMinute.com acquisition of TravelPrice (2002): This marked the rise of Europe’s online travel economy, similar to Expedia’s growth in the U.S.. At Kahn & Associés law firm, where I was a partner, we represented major private equity funds and numerous high-tech and biotech companies.

• Opening the Paris office of K&L Gates (2008): This was both an entrepreneurial challenge and a unique opportunity, this coincided with the onset of the financial crisis.

• Microsoft’s acquisitions of French high-tech companies in France: These strategic transactions involved complex issues, such as intellectual property ownership, labor law, and the integration of founders into Microsoft’s Seattle-based team. One highlight was presenting the differences between U.S. and French law on these acquisition topics at Microsoft’s Redmond campus.

• A high-profile acquisition project of a French flagship naval repair industry company under bankruptcy proceeding which involved the French ministry and local public actors: I advised a famous U.S. private equity fund and its subsidiary on the acquisition offer.

• A complex ICC arbitration case: This involved the enforcement of a shareholders’ agreement under French law, governing a Malagasy company, and required navigating both Malagasy and French legal systems.

• A complex Middle Eastern joint venture: Since opening the Paris office of Rimon Law firm in 2021, I’ve worked on a fascinating joint venture between a renowned French company and local partners. This involved navigating a shareholders’ agreement subject to French law with a company governed by UAE law and exploring future projects in Saudi Arabia.

3. How did you decide to pursue an LLM degree through McGeorge?

As someone with a diverse, international family background, I was eager to study abroad and gain global experience. McGeorge School of Law offered a unique program that combined studying in Europe and American legal studies in the U.S. Beginning with classes in Salzburg, followed by an internship at a U.S. law firm and coursework in Sacramento, the program was perfectly aligned with my goals.

At the time, I had already completed two LLM degrees at Panthéon-Sorbonne in Paris, one in International Law and the other one in Foreign Trade Law and had worked for two years at a French law firm. With a scholarship from the Paris Bar and the French foreign ministry, McGeorge provided the ideal opportunity to broaden my horizons and embark on an international academic journey I was dreaming of.

4. What impressed you or surprised you the most about your LLM experience?

The program’s diversity was remarkable. Engaging with students from all over the world provided rich discussions and invaluable insights into different legal systems and cultures. Many of these classmates remain close friends after all these years. I completed the LLM program in 1990-1991.

Starting with classes in Salzburg eased the transition from civil law to common law systems, particularly understanding precedents  and tackle the challenges of learning and writing exclusively in English.

The professors were outstanding, and their passion for teaching left a lasting impression. I recall Krysta Ban, Kojo Yelpaala, Stephen McCaffrey, and Hans-Henrik Lidgard and many others as particularly inspiring.

The program also significantly boosted my career opportunities, with multiple offers from prestigious law firms upon my return to France. At that time, very few students had studied abroad and obtained an LLM, so it gave me a distinct edge in the job market.

5. Do you have any advice for young lawyers who would like to go into your field of law?

I strongly encourage young lawyers to pursue international experiences. These are incredibly enriching and, for me, remain some of the best times of my life.

Seize every opportunity to improve your English, especially your legal English skills, which can be challenging at first.

Building and maintaining a strong professional network is equally crucial. Participate in associations, attend industry events, and stay connected — it’s often who you know that matters as much as what you know.

Along the way of your career, it is probably important to ask yourself and understand what you want to accomplish. Set clear, measurable goals throughout your career. This helps in staying focused and achieving your objectives. Getting specialised and knowing well an industry makes also a difference.

Finally, be collaborative: share ideas, make introductions, and support others in your network. It will make your life as a lawyer far more fulfilling.

6. Do you have any suggestions on how McGeorge can best facilitate connections between international alumni?

Maintaining an updated alumni directory which I know is already the plan. Encouraging initiatives in each country or region to organize small gatherings. Indeed,  smaller, localized groups could bring fresh ideas and encourage participation in meetings.

I was fortunate to attend the last alumni meeting in Prague which was very friendly and inspiring after many years during which I did not participate. I tried to reach out to many alumni of my year to join which many of them did. Since then, I am really looking forward to the next meeting in Paris and trust there will be even more alumni attending.

Creating a real network where alumni would make recommendations, send referrals and fostering collaboration would also strengthen the sense of community.

Additionally, promoting alumni achievements which you are doing through these newsletters, is an excellent idea and may serve as inspiration for others and foster connections between alumni who have the same interests.